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#21 [url]

Oct 16 15 7:42 AM

bigblaster wrote:
ocmike24 wrote:
bigblaster wrote:
I'm ready to make the Puig move, while he still has mystery in his value. Bet we could get some bullpen talent for him. We proved we can win without him.

But they didn't win.  Anything.
They most certainly did, and I apologize for not being clearer.  They won the West.  No, that isn't enough, but they won plenty of games without Puig, which means they CAN win games (and seasons) without him.  His antics have worn thin with management and, apparently, his teammates. He needs to mature, but we shouldn't have to wait any longer on him to do that. Get what you can for him.  Hell, let's go after Cespedes (who is Puig with maturity, anyway). 

In other news, Grandal will have arthroscopic surgery on Wednesday on his yipping shoulder.

Another, non-trade, move I'd make is to send Joc to the AFL to revamp that swing.  It is a sweet swing, but it is too big and, if he can learn to shorten his drive forward and then explode on the ball, we'll see 30+ dings out of him, every year.


I'm of the opinion we give Joc more time, he has better potential than Ethier or crawford and is cheap. No reason to trade him off for little value if we are keeping guys like Ethier and crawford. Plus I can see him maturing and working out the kinks after only his First year in the big leagues. He is not facing AAA pitching anymore, he just needs time to learn how to adjust and execute. As you mentioned AFL may be a good place for that, or send him back to AAA for half a season (I assume he has options).  He needs to try and cut down a bit on strike outs, but he walks a ton and has a obs that is about what we got from Ethier and Crawford but great def. One thing can be said about all the strike outs, he doesn't GIDP much!

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#22 [url]

Oct 16 15 8:09 AM

UCSB07 wrote:
bigblaster wrote:
ocmike24 wrote:

But they didn't win.  Anything.
They most certainly did, and I apologize for not being clearer.  They won the West.  No, that isn't enough, but they won plenty of games without Puig, which means they CAN win games (and seasons) without him.  His antics have worn thin with management and, apparently, his teammates. He needs to mature, but we shouldn't have to wait any longer on him to do that. Get what you can for him.  Hell, let's go after Cespedes (who is Puig with maturity, anyway). 

In other news, Grandal will have arthroscopic surgery on Wednesday on his yipping shoulder.

Another, non-trade, move I'd make is to send Joc to the AFL to revamp that swing.  It is a sweet swing, but it is too big and, if he can learn to shorten his drive forward and then explode on the ball, we'll see 30+ dings out of him, every year.


I'm of the opinion we give Joc more time, he has better potential than Ethier or crawford and is cheap. No reason to trade him off for little value if we are keeping guys like Ethier and crawford. Plus I can see him maturing and working out the kinks after only his First year in the big leagues. He is not facing AAA pitching anymore, he just needs time to learn how to adjust and execute. As you mentioned AFL may be a good place for that, or send him back to AAA for half a season (I assume he has options).  He needs to try and cut down a bit on strike outs, but he walks a ton and has a obs that is about what we got from Ethier and Crawford but great def. One thing can be said about all the strike outs, he doesn't GIDP much!
ROFL!  That is a bit like saying "One positive about the Titanic: It opened some space at the dock."

Seriously, though, I'd give him at least as much time as they gave Kemp. He has all the upside in the world and he really should have spent at least two weeks after the All-Star Break in OKC.  AFL, maybe some Caribbean time, see how he looks in the spring, and then decide whether he opens in LA or lets Kiké handle CF for a month or two while he plays back in AAA for awhile.

In extremos orientem in qualitatem; in extremos occidentem in saporem.

Last Edited By: bigblaster Oct 16 15 8:38 AM. Edited 1 time.

#23 [url]

Oct 16 15 8:56 AM

Buster Olney is out saying it was Grienke's preference to work out a deal a few months ago but it didnt pan out. Really? The Dodgers had the chance to sign him and didn't? Don't like the sound of that at all

#24 [url]

Oct 16 15 9:52 AM

Going to preface this as saying this is what I think the FO not that I would do (not all of it anyway)

1. Trade Mattingly to the Marlins. This way it's not an outright firing, but more of, he's not who we want moving forward. I doubt it's part of a big trade to include Puig or Stanton
2. Lopes, McGuire, and Walach are let go
3. Kapler is new manager. As far as the hitting, bench, first base coach, I think Dave Martinez comes on board as bench coach, not sure who gets the other positions.
4. Payroll is reduced by not bringing back Greinke and Kendrick, and letting Rollins, Ruggiano, Perralta, Nicasio and Anderson leave as free agents. I also think some dead contracts come off the board in Wilson and Aaroyo
5. A mid tier starting pitcher and reliever are signed as Free Agents or are traded for. Unfortunatly, I don't think Dodgers have the pieces to aquire by trade unless it does involve Puig, which I don't think they are ready to do just yet.
6. Crawford is released after no trade for him can be done.
7. I think this is the FO thinking going into the season next year player wise: Agon, Pereza, Seager,Turner, Kike for IF. Etheir, SVS, Joc, Puig in OF, Ellis and Grandal C, so another IF and OF will somehow come aboard. Starting pitching, Kershaw, aquired pitcher, Ryu, Wood, Bolsinger, McCarthy, Frias, Lee and Urias will be the plan (yes I know not all of them, but starting depth). Bullpen basically the same, without Perralta and Nicasio. Jansen, Hatcher, Avilan, Garcia, Baez, Howell, and aquired pitcher.

Really I think this will be a trim the fat off season to get payroll down. Have a good enough team to compete for the division, and take the chances in the playoffs if they get that far.

#25 [url]

Oct 16 15 10:29 AM

Throwdeuce wrote:
Going to preface this as saying this is what I think the FO not that I would do (not all of it anyway)

1. Trade Mattingly to the Marlins. This way it's not an outright firing, but more of, he's not who we want moving forward. I doubt it's part of a big trade to include Puig or Stanton
2. Lopes, McGuire, and Walach are let go
3. Kapler is new manager. As far as the hitting, bench, first base coach, I think Dave Martinez comes on board as bench coach, not sure who gets the other positions.
4. Payroll is reduced by not bringing back Greinke and Kendrick, and letting Rollins, Ruggiano, Perralta, Nicasio and Anderson leave as free agents. I also think some dead contracts come off the board in Wilson and Aaroyo
5. A mid tier starting pitcher and reliever are signed as Free Agents or are traded for. Unfortunatly, I don't think Dodgers have the pieces to aquire by trade unless it does involve Puig, which I don't think they are ready to do just yet.
6. Crawford is released after no trade for him can be done.
7. I think this is the FO thinking going into the season next year player wise: Agon, Pereza, Seager,Turner, Kike for IF. Etheir, SVS, Joc, Puig in OF, Ellis and Grandal C, so another IF and OF will somehow come aboard. Starting pitching, Kershaw, aquired pitcher, Ryu, Wood, Bolsinger, McCarthy, Frias, Lee and Urias will be the plan (yes I know not all of them, but starting depth). Bullpen basically the same, without Perralta and Nicasio. Jansen, Hatcher, Avilan, Garcia, Baez, Howell, and aquired pitcher.

Really I think this will be a trim the fat off season to get payroll down. Have a good enough team to compete for the division, and take the chances in the playoffs if they get that far.

I tend to agree, I would hope they get someone to pair up with Kersh. A team lives and dies by its pitching in the postseason and I'm not sure outside of Grienke and price who could be a good pair

#26 [url]

Oct 16 15 10:36 AM

I think this was a better team than the 2014 version, I really do. We got hit hard by injuries (Ryu, McCarthy, Grandal, Puig, Kendrick) and we still made a hell of a go at it. I put a lot of the blame for the game 1 NLDS loss on Mattingly's shoulders (seriously, let Kershaw get into a jam and then bring in Baez? deja vu), but he wasn't terrible after that. I mostly agreed with the lineups and I like how he handled the staff in game 4. At the end of the day, we needed a better outing from Greinke in game 5 and the team was sloppy and kinda quit after the 4th inning. We kept threatening against deGrom, but just couldn't break through. Also, it seemed like somehow the team dynamic changed after Ethier's tantrum ... not sure exactly what happened there, but it wasn't good. And while I think that Mattingly did a slightly better job of in-game managing for this post-season, our team looked clueless out there at times and it's time for a new voice in the clubhouse. Like, what the hell happened with that failed coverage on Murphy? Seriously? In the playoffs, someone got confused or was lazy? Inexcusable. And why in the hell did Ethier catch that foul ball and let the run score? You can't just give the opposing team a run in a winner take all game that's supposed to be a damn pitching duel. Clueless.

While Mattingly grew on me somewhat, I'm just not seeing the positives outweighing the negatives here. He may have a good rapport with the guys, but the team isn't well coached or well managed and it's time for a change. Sorry for it to happen to such a nice guy ... and I think he might actually succeed elsewhere, but we need an attitude change and while we're at it, we might as well get someone who actually knows how to manage. Plain and simple. Fire his ass and hire Kapler or someone else with a clue. We've got young kids who need instruction and positive role models.

Looking forward to 2016, I think this team is VERY well positioned to keep this thing going. Let's look at that roster:

SP: Kershaw, Ryu, Wood, Bolsinger, Frias with Wieland, Lee, Cotton, De Leon and Urias in the mix and McCarthy possibly back at mid-season.
RP: Jansen, Hatcher, Howell, Nicasio, Avilan, Baez, Garcia, Liberatore
C: Grandal, Ellis and Barnes
IF: Gonzalez, Seager, Peraza, Turner, Kike and possibly Barnes/SVS
OF: Puig, CC, Pederson, Ethier, Schebler, SVS, Kike and Ruggiano

That is still a REALLY strong team. Our payroll is actually down to $148M now without Greinke and before arbitration. What a difference a year makes! I'd like to think that we can shed some more salary, too. We need to sign AJ Ellis to a 3 year $8M backup/coaching contract. I'd also try to get Jansen and Turner signed to multi-year deals, but that may prove difficult. Heisey, Barney, Nicasio and Ruggiano could be expendable, but none of them are all that expensive. I would love, love to see one of Ethier or CC traded. Carl has two years and $43M left, while Ethier has 2/$35. If this FO can trade CC, they are working GD miracles. I just don't see it. Ethier, on the other hand after a successful bounce-back year, I think could be moved. Eat $15-20M, take nothing in return and hopefully clear $15-20M from the books. No need to keep Ethier with CC and all the other OFs on this roster. While we're at it, time to trade/cut Guerrero. Let's say we cut $15M and add $25M in arb: currently sitting at ~$160M.

Now the easy part: make qualifying offers to Anderson, Kendrick and Greinke. Honestly, I'd be stoked if all THREE of those guys accepted, which would put us at ~$206. But, if all three decline, we'll have five early picks in next year's draft. Not too shabby. I'm not sure what our payroll will be next year, but I have to expect a decline. $250M is a reasonable target, so we likely still have ~$90M to work with, no?

Our needs are easy: SP, offense. I think the bullpen is fine. We could use another piece, but relief pitchers are such a crapshoot. Obviously, we need to be real aggressive on the pitching market. I'd love to sign Greinke to a 5/145 deal, because I think his fine control will play well into his older age and he's a RHP, which we need. But, if someone offers him 6-7 years or ~$200M, I'd pass. At that point, I'd go hard after the big three. I'm concerned about the staff being 4/5 LH, but I could see us signing Price and then flipping Wood to another team to fill another hole. You take the best available talent and it's real hard to pass on Price. But Zimmerman or Cueto would look great in this rotation, too. For the offense, I'd look real hard at re-signing Kendrick, because we need some steady veterans to balance against the youth on this team. Gonzalez is NOT an MVP-type hitter any longer, but he's a solid 4/5 and he plays great D. If we didn't have so many OFers, I'd consider a run at Cespedes or Upton, but we need to subtract, not add to that department. I definitely would be approaching the Marlins about Puig and anyone else that wants to listen with an eye towards a SP or bat. I'm not trading Puig for middle relief.

Otherwise, I really like our chances that Seager, Kike, Joc, Peraza and possibly Barnes will step up next year. I'd like some more stability in the lineup outside of Grandal, Gonzalez and Turner, but I think there'll be some options for us. With the FA market full of OFs, we really need to see how the trade market develops. I'll tell you this much, with $90M to work with, a stable FO and tons of assets, I think we're going to see some serious fireworks this offseason. Some of us won't like at least some of the moves. But, change is coming. Buckle your seat belts!!!

#27 [url]

Oct 16 15 4:49 PM

Just returned home from the one-game road trip from hell. Connecting flight was late and then incrementally delayed. It finally arrived over 3.5 hours late. The traffic from LAX to DS was beyond ridiculous. Then, the parking lot was full and we ended up parking on a dirt road behind the Union 76 station. This was followed by a screw up at Will Call and we ended up getting into the stadium in the fifth inning. Watched the offense not even be there after that point and facing the fact that we had blown lots of money and two wasted days. So, I'm so pissed off that I shouldn't even comment. Even still, blowing up the team isn't going to fix anything. In the end, the FO's decision for trade deadline acquisitions (Wood, Johnson, Latos) or non-acquisitions (compared to Jays, Astros, Rangers, and Mets) affected the postseason dramatically.

Agree the team needed a fire lit under their collective asses, and laid back DM is not that guy. Not sure, though, that a Lasorda type would work on this era's prima donna millionaires.

I need a few days to cool off and collect my thoughts. Everything about this experience sucked, even the small things ($25 DS parking, $16.50 beer, traffic gridlock beyond belief, and the third world airport that is LAX, and the hotel parking costing $30 instead of the advertised $15.)  Lot of little minor shit, piled on top of the season ending prematurely, but right now, I Hate LA.

Last Edited By: WildHare Oct 16 15 5:17 PM. Edited 2 times.

#28 [url]

Oct 16 15 7:13 PM

I waited a full 24 hours before even reading a single article about baseball, listening to the TV or radio or even going onto this site (normally what I do first). I needed that time to cool down.

Some time ago, I said if the Dodgers did not make it past the first round of the playoffs this year I thought the FO deserved an F. I've had some more time to reflect on that now.

I am convinced they were given free reign to make changes and spend money as they saw fit (and certainly could have demanded that as a condition to come aboard). Kasten also said they could spend money as needed at the deadline. They had a dual mandate - to build a team to be competitive every year into the future but also to improve the team on the field in 2015. Given that the team had a slightly worse record than last year and was eliminated in the playoffs once again in the NLDS, I think the results prove they failed on the latter. I definitely do not agree thet team was better and do not think hiding behind injuries is any excuse. The Cardinals had injuries galore all season but managed to win 100 games.

They should have insisted on firing Mattingly last year at the time they were hired when they certainly would have had the leverage to do so. They should have done a better job of assembling a pitching staff and certainly should not have gone into the season without table setters at the top of the order. Depending on Rollins to be the leadoff hittter was obviously a mistake.

Looking at the whole picture, I have changed my mind and in my view they deserve a D for one reason - they did not mortgage the future and give up any of the top prospects. Hopefully the future is brighter but that will depend a lot on whether the group of international talent they have added is less of a disappointment than Guerrerro, Olivera and even Puig as I certainly hope they will be.

Yes I am angry, frustrated, disappointed, depressed and disgusted. Wait till next year for the 27th consecutive time makes me want to puke.

Last Edited By: beefchopper Oct 16 15 7:40 PM. Edited 1 time.

#29 [url]

Oct 17 15 5:33 AM

From MLBTradeRumors.com fyi:

Buster Olney and Keith Law of ESPN discussed the Dodgers in today’s podcast, specifically last night’s game (including managerial decisions on both sides) and the future of Mattingly. Both Olney and Law feel that Mattingly will be dismissed. Law opines that while Mattingly isn’t one of the game’s better tactical managers, he’s not among the worst, and much of the team’s postseason struggles must be blamed on the front office and the roster construction. Olney discusses the fact that Andrew Friedman’s strategy of building platoons and part-time roles worked in Tampa Bay with less-established players, but it’s highly difficult to make that strategy work when dealing with veteran players on expensive contracts. Also discussed is how the Dodgers should be willing to overpay to retain Greinke, with Law projecting Greinke’s style of pitching to hold up well over the life of a theoretical free agent contract.

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=13900297 appearing around the 32-minute mark

#30 [url]

Oct 17 15 5:39 AM

beefchopper wrote:
From MLBTradeRumors.com fyi:

Buster Olney and Keith Law of ESPN discussed the Dodgers in today’s podcast, specifically last night’s game (including managerial decisions on both sides) and the future of Mattingly. Both Olney and Law feel that Mattingly will be dismissed. Law opines that while Mattingly isn’t one of the game’s better tactical managers, he’s not among the worst, and much of the team’s postseason struggles must be blamed on the front office and the roster construction. Olney discusses the fact that Andrew Friedman’s strategy of building platoons and part-time roles worked in Tampa Bay with less-established players, but it’s highly difficult to make that strategy work when dealing with veteran players on expensive contracts. Also discussed is how the Dodgers should be willing to overpay to retain Greinke, with Law projecting Greinke’s style of pitching to hold up well over the life of a theoretical free agent contract.

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=13900297 appearing around the 32-minute mark
make sure to hear the discussion of Greinke at about the 38 minute mark

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#31 [url]

Oct 17 15 6:50 AM

Morning, all. Looked at the roster as it stands right now and we have three remaining free agents in Anderson, Kendrick and Rollins with two (Anderson and Kendrick) getting QO's and Rollins gets a hearty handshake and a pat on the back as he is pushed out the door to Oakland. There are four or five who have options with one already decided (Greinke is going to opt out) and one sure thing he will accept (Howell). The other three (I think) are Utley, Peralta and Arroyo. I figure both Peralta and Arroyo will be bought out and depending on Utley's salary for '16 (there is some talk it could be as low as $5 million which would be a bargain, IMO). Next, comes the ten players under contract of which, again my own opinion, only two are sure things to return in Kershaw and Ryu. The remainder are Crawford, Ethier, AGon, Puig, McCarthy (I leave him out because I don't see him pitching until September at the earliest), Guerrero and two guys who are not on the 40-man, Tabata and Arruebarrena. I think it is pretty safe to say that Crawford and Guerrero are not Dodgers by spring training while I think we release both Tabata and Arruebarrena and pay off their deals (although, I could see us re-sign both ot minor league deals). That leaves Puig, AGon and Ethier. I would not be shocked to see all three moved, but in all likelihood one may stick (probably AGon) as I think Ethier's meltdown, although warranted, is also his death knell as a Dodger. I also believe that this front office is not sold on Puig and figure to move him too soon rather than too late.

Now, we come to the arbitration guys. The list is lengthy so here are the highlights, I can see both Jansen and Turner getting long term offers to avoid the big arb hit each will be getting. It makes sense and if the payroll needs to be more controlled then do it here. I am betting that Nicasio, Heisey and Ellis get non-tendered. Heisey because he is not worth the money, Nicasio because of reasons and Ellis because paying over $5 million for a backup catcher is ludicrous. The rest, Avilan, Hatcher, Grandal, Wieland and Ruggiano all get tendered and SVS likely gets dealt unless the Dodgers are going with the idea that his downturn was injury-based rather than being figured out by the league. He has value and might be a good trade piece. Then comes the seventeen players who are under team control. I think all but two get contracts. Torreyes doesn't really impress me as we seem to be deep in backup middle infielders and I think there is little upside to Mike Bolsinger as he was exposed in the second half. He might be a good arm for an also ran, but I can't see a niche for him on the Dodgers, that being said I think we could get something back for him in trade with a team that is pitching hungry. It also helps that all of these guys have multiple options which is a good thing.

I am thinking, by the Winter Meetings, our roster should be down to 30-31 as I fully expect us to be busy as soon as the Series is over. If I had to guess, the guys who will not be on the roster will be the three free agents, Peralta and Arroyo (I think we take the option on Utley) and Guerrero, Tabata, Arruebarrena and Heisey are shown the door with decisions on SVS, Nicasio and Ellis coming late. I think we have to add Cotton, Stripling and DeLeon to avoid losing them to the Rule V. Some guys who also might be added are Juan Gonzalez, Mike Thomas and Kyle Farmer as I think all three could be Rule V candidates but I am not sure.

#32 [url]

Oct 17 15 7:31 AM

beefchopper wrote:
I waited a full 24 hours before even reading a single article about baseball, listening to the TV or radio or even going onto this site (normally what I do first). I needed that time to cool down.

Some time ago, I said if the Dodgers did not make it past the first round of the playoffs this year I thought the FO deserved an F. I've had some more time to reflect on that now.

I am convinced they were given free reign to make changes and spend money as they saw fit (and certainly could have demanded that as a condition to come aboard). Kasten also said they could spend money as needed at the deadline. They had a dual mandate - to build a team to be competitive every year into the future but also to improve the team on the field in 2015. Given that the team had a slightly worse record than last year and was eliminated in the playoffs once again in the NLDS, I think the results prove they failed on the latter. I definitely do not agree thet team was better and do not think hiding behind injuries is any excuse. The Cardinals had injuries galore all season but managed to win 100 games.

They should have insisted on firing Mattingly last year at the time they were hired when they certainly would have had the leverage to do so. They should have done a better job of assembling a pitching staff and certainly should not have gone into the season without table setters at the top of the order. Depending on Rollins to be the leadoff hittter was obviously a mistake.

Looking at the whole picture, I have changed my mind and in my view they deserve a D for one reason - they did not mortgage the future and give up any of the top prospects. Hopefully the future is brighter but that will depend a lot on whether the group of international talent they have added is less of a disappointment than Guerrerro, Olivera and even Puig as I certainly hope they will be.

Yes I am angry, frustrated, disappointed, depressed and disgusted. Wait till next year for the 27th consecutive time makes me want to puke.


Well, the Cards won 100 games, but only won one game in the playoffs. Why? Probably because they relied on John Lackey too much and didn't have Waino or Martinez. I'm not sure our season wasn't actually more successful. As for upgrades, who should we have acquired at the deadline? Price, Cueto and Hamels were the darlings of the trade deadline. All three were expensive to acquire and only Hamels is signed past 2015. Would one of those pitchers have pushed us over the edge? There's no guarantee! We could have sent out Urias, Seager, Holmes and/or De Leon, still lost to the Mets and had nothing to show for it. Now we can keep those kids, use them and just give $$$ to have those pitchers for the next 5-7 years. My point is, I'm not sure what move we could have made that would have done the trick in 2015. Our future is in developing these kids and we got some great experience for Joc, Seager, Kike, Peraza and Schebler. We also used this season to stockpile even more young talent and to clear significant salary. I know that 2015 was a disappointment, because every year without a title is, but I still think we're trending in the right direction. I'm expecting a big off-season.

#34 [url]

Oct 17 15 8:14 AM

bigblaster wrote:
We got one wish: Stan Conte has resigned.

That's actually huge news.  About nearly 10 years overdue.

#36 [url]

Oct 17 15 8:25 AM

Doppel Von Guggenheim wrote:

I think we'll all be happy with that! Good start.

 

Well, I was happy about it until I mysteriously pulled my hamstring once I stood up.

#38 [url]

Oct 17 15 8:57 AM

bigblaster wrote:
We got one wish: Stan Conte has resigned.
First of many to be shown the door.   I am betting Conte was given the choice of resigning or getting fired and chose the less of a blemish on his resume.    Like Shaikin said, changes are a-comin'. 

#40 [url]

Oct 17 15 9:15 AM

I think Grienke there is 100% chance that Grienke or Price will be a Dodger next year. You need a clear 1-2 punch or you are nothing moving forward when you look at the team's we will be going up against in the future. They all have 2 guys who can no-hit you.

Kershaw, Price, Ryu and Wood doesn't work though because we are all LH's there. We need a RH somewhere. McCarthy is out for awhile so what do we do there? Urias is a LH so maybe DeLeon gets a look but he is a #5 at best as a rookie.

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