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Jul 5 16 9:26 PM

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Gotta say, I haven't a clue.  Starting pitching?  Well, we got Ryu and McCarthy back.  Outfield help?  Where are we with Ethier?  Bullpen? The All-Star Break could refresh.  You tell me.  But then, "You tell me" is what this thread is about, isn't it?  The discussion on August 5th should be every bit as interesting as July 5th.  Have at it!

In extremos orientem in qualitatem; in extremos occidentem in saporem.

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#1 [url]

Jul 6 16 3:19 AM

Ethier has been cleared for light baseball activities and light running. If we can get Ethier and Joc back, we don't need to make any moves for outfielders. A soft platoon of Ethier/Trayce in left along with Trayce spelling Joc in center plus mixing in SVS in left against the tougher lefties, should be a solid outfield rotation. This frees up Kendrick for a platoon role with Utley at second base. This leaves a strong core of bench strength.

The pitching is another set of question and who knows the answers to that with all the variables.
Can we get a speedy injury recovery by the greatest pitcher on earth?
Has Norris indeed figured something out and is not just a marginal replacement level pitcher?
Does Ryu have enough left after shoulder surgery and will he be able to shake off the rust?
Is McCarthy going to continue to look nearly as dominant as he did in his return?
Can the resurgent bullpen continue to impress?

Also, will September call-ups like DeLeon, Urias, and Segedin make an impact?
Can Turner and AGon be a formidable twosome in the middle of the order?

If the answer to all of those questions is "YES!", we don't need to make any moves to be a force in the postseason. Too many "NO's, and we stay home in October. Many of these questions should have a clearer answer by the trade deadline.

#2 [url]

Jul 6 16 10:35 AM

I think the FO will only be looking to get a legit setup guy for the pen, unless more injuries occurs, I think they stand pat on what is already here or coming back from the DL, and hoping that's good enough.

#3 [url]

Jul 6 16 1:57 PM

Wouldn't be at all surprised to see us go after Lucroy.  The offensive production from the C spot has been the worst the Dodgers have seen in 30 years.

#4 [url]

Jul 6 16 2:46 PM

monsooner wrote:
Wouldn't be at all surprised to see us go after Lucroy.  The offensive production from the C spot has been the worst the Dodgers have seen in 30 years.

2004 after LoDuca was traded was worse. At least Grandal hits one out once every 20 or so AB's and Ellis walks. But point taken.

#5 [url]

Jul 6 16 4:31 PM

I want it all. Give me Gurriel, Chapman and a #2. Also, at what point are we bringing up Barnes to replace Grandal? I preached patience and hoped that his 2nd half last year was hampered by injury, but his first half of 2016 has been almost equally as awful. I'm not sure that I care what the reason is for his failure (and I was defending him earlier), he sucks right now and we may have a replacement ready to go. How long do we wait for him to bounce back?

#6 [url]

Jul 6 16 4:48 PM

Throwdeuce wrote:
monsooner wrote:
Wouldn't be at all surprised to see us go after Lucroy.  The offensive production from the C spot has been the worst the Dodgers have seen in 30 years.

2004 after LoDuca was traded was worse. At least Grandal hits one out once every 20 or so AB's and Ellis walks. But point taken.
Oh, yeah!  David Ross and Brent Mayne.  They were historically awful after LoDuca was traded.  DePo made the LoDuca deal thinking he had Charles Johnson coming, but CJ refused to accept the trade and we were left with Ross having the worst year of his career and Mayne, who was done.

#7 [url]

Jul 6 16 5:48 PM

WildHare wrote:
Throwdeuce wrote:
monsooner wrote:
Wouldn't be at all surprised to see us go after Lucroy.  The offensive production from the C spot has been the worst the Dodgers have seen in 30 years.

2004 after LoDuca was traded was worse. At least Grandal hits one out once every 20 or so AB's and Ellis walks. But point taken.
Oh, yeah!  David Ross and Brent Mayne.  They were historically awful after LoDuca was traded.  DePo made the LoDuca deal thinking he had Charles Johnson coming, but CJ refused to accept the trade and we were left with Ross having the worst year of his career and Mayne, who was done.



And 2005 wasn't much better with Phillips, Ross, and Navarro. In fact not until Russell was brought up in late May of 2006, it was a 2 year black hole much worse than now.

#8 [url]

Jul 6 16 8:03 PM

Doppel Von Guggenheim wrote:
I want it all. Give me Gurriel, Chapman and a #2. Also, at what point are we bringing up Barnes to replace Grandal? I preached patience and hoped that his 2nd half last year was hampered by injury, but his first half of 2016 has been almost equally as awful. I'm not sure that I care what the reason is for his failure (and I was defending him earlier), he sucks right now and we may have a replacement ready to go. How long do we wait for him to bounce back?

I don't think that this Front Office is going to let go of their prized assets that they acquired in trade until they have used up ever last option on them.  Grandal, Hatcher, Baez, the Cubans etc. were players they aggressively went after and regardless of how much credibility Friedman has, he is spending a lot of money and he isn't going to just be given free reign to keep spending money without some impact.  Even the manager is a question mark. Not too many of his guys they pick up on a weekly basis have been moving the meter either.  The safe move for him right now seems to be to wait for the kids to arrive and to see what they get from the returning SP's.  I am not sure I want him making trades since he doesn't seem to win too many of these deals.  

I think the flies on the wall in the conversations behind closed doors would all say that the mission this year is to ride out what they have and not embarrass themselves.  Tread water and hopefully win the division but if not, then keep all their kids and make a good run at it.  It just seem even remotely in Friedman's DNA to go after a big name like Lucroy which would cost De Leon and another player at a minimum and would also signify a clear failure in Grandal.  

The more annoying thing at the moment is that we have gone 8-2 over our last 10 games while the Giants go 5-5 and here we are sitting back at 6 games out.  It's so damn frustrating because we finally got that streak we wanted and it barely moved the standings.  We just need to get back at it and sweep the stupid Padres.  


Last Edited By: NewportDodger Jul 6 16 8:57 PM. Edited 1 time.

#9 [url]

Jul 7 16 7:00 AM

Of immediate concern, in my humble opinion, are the following:
  • Quality arm for 6th-8th innings, AKA long relief man. We still have too many unreliable arms in the bullpen and most of our starters can't pitch past the 5th or 6th inning. Hatcher is terrible, the joke's over with JP and I still don't trust Fien or Baez. So we need absolutely need a long relief guy. At this point, I think this is more important than a new setup man.
  • Legit setup man - Do we really trust anybody for the 8th inning? Libertore has been pretty good I suppose, but Chapman would be much better. Still, if I had to make a choice, I'd choose a new long man out of the pen.
  • A catcher who can hit the ball. We've already been discussing the failures of AJ and Grandal and while I'd love to have another catcher who can actually hit the ball with some kind of regularity, it just ain't gonna happen. Friedman won't admit that he made a mistake. I truly believe that and unfortunately we're stuck with what we've got. What's Barnes doing in the minors these days anyway? Is he a real option?
  • Dave Roberts is afraid to make a mistake. That's my read on his rookie season as manager. He makes decisions as if he is very afraid of making the wrong decision, so he's probably overthinking things like lineup construction, righty-lefty matchups, resting guys at the worst possible times, and so on. I'm hoping he improves because he's all we've got. If the Dodgers actually make the playoffs, I fear that good ol' Doc will screw the pooch somehow and cost us a game.
  • Puig Puig Puig. It always comes down to Puig. From brilliant to awful in the space of five minutes, it's an old story already. At this point I'd trade him for the right offensive piece, like a strong-hitting left-fielder for example. Otherwise, it's hope and pray he figures things out.
  • Do we cut loose guys who have crashed to earth, like SVS and Trayce (although Trayce is still hitting home runs)? Who replaces them? Can we get better bench pieces in trade?
Unfortunately, this is kind of a wish-list. We're likely not getting any answers to the above. You'll note that I'm not too concerned with the starting pitching, except for my belief that a good long man out of the pen would do wonders for the short outings for our starters and save us from having to deal for another starter. The bench kind of sucks. Which all means that the front office will end up trading for another starter. Sigh.

#10 [url]

Jul 7 16 8:35 AM

Shmolnick wrote:
Of immediate concern, in my humble opinion, are the following:
  • Quality arm for 6th-8th innings, AKA long relief man. We still have too many unreliable arms in the bullpen and most of our starters can't pitch past the 5th or 6th inning. Hatcher is terrible, the joke's over with JP and I still don't trust Fien or Baez. So we need absolutely need a long relief guy. At this point, I think this is more important than a new setup man.
  • Legit setup man - Do we really trust anybody for the 8th inning? Libertore has been pretty good I suppose, but Chapman would be much better. Still, if I had to make a choice, I'd choose a new long man out of the pen.
Realistically, Blanton was supposed to be the long man when he signed, but because he's been one of the most reliable pen pitchers all season, his role change. If the FO can get a legit 8th inning guy, he can be moved back to that role IMO. Libby has been great for the 7th. 
I can't wait until Hatcher is DFA'd, hopefully today with Ryu coming back, but I'm sure it'll be Avilan sent down (not that he deserves to stay either), and some other 40 man move is done for that.

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#11 [url]

Jul 7 16 9:37 AM

Add 2014 to the list of worst Dodger offensive performances from catchers.  That Ellis/Federowicz combination that year was pretty brutal.

#12 [url]

Jul 7 16 10:46 AM

Shmolnick wrote:
Of immediate concern, in my humble opinion, are the following:
  • Quality arm for 6th-8th innings, AKA long relief man. We still have too many unreliable arms in the bullpen and most of our starters can't pitch past the 5th or 6th inning. Hatcher is terrible, the joke's over with JP and I still don't trust Fien or Baez. So we need absolutely need a long relief guy. At this point, I think this is more important than a new setup man.
  • Legit setup man - Do we really trust anybody for the 8th inning? Libertore has been pretty good I suppose, but Chapman would be much better. Still, if I had to make a choice, I'd choose a new long man out of the pen.
  • A catcher who can hit the ball. We've already been discussing the failures of AJ and Grandal and while I'd love to have another catcher who can actually hit the ball with some kind of regularity, it just ain't gonna happen. Friedman won't admit that he made a mistake. I truly believe that and unfortunately we're stuck with what we've got. What's Barnes doing in the minors these days anyway? Is he a real option?
  • Dave Roberts is afraid to make a mistake. That's my read on his rookie season as manager. He makes decisions as if he is very afraid of making the wrong decision, so he's probably overthinking things like lineup construction, righty-lefty matchups, resting guys at the worst possible times, and so on. I'm hoping he improves because he's all we've got. If the Dodgers actually make the playoffs, I fear that good ol' Doc will screw the pooch somehow and cost us a game.
  • Puig Puig Puig. It always comes down to Puig. From brilliant to awful in the space of five minutes, it's an old story already. At this point I'd trade him for the right offensive piece, like a strong-hitting left-fielder for example. Otherwise, it's hope and pray he figures things out.
  • Do we cut loose guys who have crashed to earth, like SVS and Trayce (although Trayce is still hitting home runs)? Who replaces them? Can we get better bench pieces in trade?
Unfortunately, this is kind of a wish-list. We're likely not getting any answers to the above. You'll note that I'm not too concerned with the starting pitching, except for my belief that a good long man out of the pen would do wonders for the short outings for our starters and save us from having to deal for another starter. The bench kind of sucks. Which all means that the front office will end up trading for another starter. Sigh.
The Dodgers damn near have the best bullpen in all of baseball -- a close 2nd, behind only KC by 0.04 ERA -- even with Hatcher's horrible line factored into the equation.  Jansen is Jansen, Liberatore has been awesome (pretty much as good as Chapman), Blanton has been a great surprise (something the front office hasn't been given enough credit for), Fien, Coleman, Baez and Howell have all been solid as well -- just don't bring Baez in when the tying run is at the plate :)   I'm not sure why anyone would clamor for more middle relief.

A catcher who can hit would be a great add though.  No argument there.  I'd love to see Lucroy, at the right cost, and I'd be happy to take Braun and his contract in the process. Adding two bats like Lucroy and Braun in the second half would be a HUGE boost.  Being in the bottom half of the majors in runs scored, that's where our biggest need is.




#13 [url]

Jul 7 16 11:31 AM

I just don't see how we can get a player of Lucroy's caliber without giving up one of Urias, De Leon or Alvarez. Those guys are untouchable in my opinion if Friedman's actions are read correctly. He isn't giving up either of those 3 guys because they all have #1 or #2 stuff. The other guy they like and I can't see them moving since they worked hard to get him is Montas. Bellinger is about as close to untouchable on the position player side.

So that leaves a mix of Cotton, Holmes, Barnes, Verdugo, Calhoun and De Jong as trade chips. I doubt any of those guys is going to get a Lucroy caliber player.

#14 [url]

Jul 7 16 12:08 PM

DSinSoCal wrote:
Shmolnick wrote:
Of immediate concern, in my humble opinion, are the following:
  • Quality arm for 6th-8th innings, AKA long relief man. We still have too many unreliable arms in the bullpen and most of our starters can't pitch past the 5th or 6th inning. Hatcher is terrible, the joke's over with JP and I still don't trust Fien or Baez. So we need absolutely need a long relief guy. At this point, I think this is more important than a new setup man.
  • Legit setup man - Do we really trust anybody for the 8th inning? Libertore has been pretty good I suppose, but Chapman would be much better. Still, if I had to make a choice, I'd choose a new long man out of the pen.
  • A catcher who can hit the ball. We've already been discussing the failures of AJ and Grandal and while I'd love to have another catcher who can actually hit the ball with some kind of regularity, it just ain't gonna happen. Friedman won't admit that he made a mistake. I truly believe that and unfortunately we're stuck with what we've got. What's Barnes doing in the minors these days anyway? Is he a real option?
  • Dave Roberts is afraid to make a mistake. That's my read on his rookie season as manager. He makes decisions as if he is very afraid of making the wrong decision, so he's probably overthinking things like lineup construction, righty-lefty matchups, resting guys at the worst possible times, and so on. I'm hoping he improves because he's all we've got. If the Dodgers actually make the playoffs, I fear that good ol' Doc will screw the pooch somehow and cost us a game.
  • Puig Puig Puig. It always comes down to Puig. From brilliant to awful in the space of five minutes, it's an old story already. At this point I'd trade him for the right offensive piece, like a strong-hitting left-fielder for example. Otherwise, it's hope and pray he figures things out.
  • Do we cut loose guys who have crashed to earth, like SVS and Trayce (although Trayce is still hitting home runs)? Who replaces them? Can we get better bench pieces in trade?
Unfortunately, this is kind of a wish-list. We're likely not getting any answers to the above. You'll note that I'm not too concerned with the starting pitching, except for my belief that a good long man out of the pen would do wonders for the short outings for our starters and save us from having to deal for another starter. The bench kind of sucks. Which all means that the front office will end up trading for another starter. Sigh.
The Dodgers damn near have the best bullpen in all of baseball -- a close 2nd, behind only KC by 0.04 ERA -- even with Hatcher's horrible line factored into the equation.  Jansen is Jansen, Liberatore has been awesome (pretty much as good as Chapman), Blanton has been a great surprise (something the front office hasn't been given enough credit for), Fien, Coleman, Baez and Howell have all been solid as well -- just don't bring Baez in when the tying run is at the plate :)   I'm not sure why anyone would clamor for more middle relief.

A catcher who can hit would be a great add though.  No argument there.  I'd love to see Lucroy, at the right cost, and I'd be happy to take Braun and his contract in the process. Adding two bats like Lucroy and Braun in the second half would be a HUGE boost.  Being in the bottom half of the majors in runs scored, that's where our biggest need is.




Sure the bullpen has been pretty good, but I still think we need a long man to come in when the starter gets pulled in the 5th or 6th inning. I don't trust Howell and Baez.

#15 [url]

Jul 7 16 12:41 PM

Throwdeuce wrote:
monsooner wrote:
Wouldn't be at all surprised to see us go after Lucroy.  The offensive production from the C spot has been the worst the Dodgers have seen in 30 years.

2004 after LoDuca was traded was worse. At least Grandal hits one out once every 20 or so AB's and Ellis walks. But point taken.
True.  Funny how I'd forgotten about that.  I think I was among the most vocal BBWC guys who hated that move, in great part because of the lack of depth at the position.

#16 [url]

Jul 7 16 1:02 PM

NewportDodger wrote:
I just don't see how we can get a player of Lucroy's caliber without giving up one of Urias, De Leon or Alvarez. Those guys are untouchable in my opinion if Friedman's actions are read correctly. He isn't giving up either of those 3 guys because they all have #1 or #2 stuff. The other guy they like and I can't see them moving since they worked hard to get him is Montas. Bellinger is about as close to untouchable on the position player side.

So that leaves a mix of Cotton, Holmes, Barnes, Verdugo, Calhoun and De Jong as trade chips. I doubt any of those guys is going to get a Lucroy caliber player.
Agree.  Lucroy would fill our greatest need but the cost would be prohibitively expensive.  Ryan Braun is producing at his TestosteRyan numbers, but he costs $80M for the next four years (including fifth year buyout) plus the prorated $20M for this year.  He'll be 36 four years from now.  Because of his contract, he might not be as costly in terms of trade chips as Lucroy, but he's not really filling an area of great need if Ethier and Joc return in full form.  How about a blockbuster where we get both Lucroy and Braun for a package including Puig, Grandal, and a combination from Cotton, Holmes, etc., except replace Verdugo with either Montas or Buehler?  We have so much pitching depth among our prospects that I wouldn't rule out JDL or maybe even Urias, in the right deal.  (I know that last sentence will be seen as heresy, but if you can get two star players with control, you have to think outside the box.  I would certainly engage the Brewers in conversation.  Braun would probably be a contract we regret in 2020, but if we can win now...

#17 [url]

Jul 7 16 1:13 PM

Shmolnick wrote:
DSinSoCal wrote:
Shmolnick wrote:
Of immediate concern, in my humble opinion, are the following:
  • Quality arm for 6th-8th innings, AKA long relief man. We still have too many unreliable arms in the bullpen and most of our starters can't pitch past the 5th or 6th inning. Hatcher is terrible, the joke's over with JP and I still don't trust Fien or Baez. So we need absolutely need a long relief guy. At this point, I think this is more important than a new setup man.
  • Legit setup man - Do we really trust anybody for the 8th inning? Libertore has been pretty good I suppose, but Chapman would be much better. Still, if I had to make a choice, I'd choose a new long man out of the pen.
  • A catcher who can hit the ball. We've already been discussing the failures of AJ and Grandal and while I'd love to have another catcher who can actually hit the ball with some kind of regularity, it just ain't gonna happen. Friedman won't admit that he made a mistake. I truly believe that and unfortunately we're stuck with what we've got. What's Barnes doing in the minors these days anyway? Is he a real option?
  • Dave Roberts is afraid to make a mistake. That's my read on his rookie season as manager. He makes decisions as if he is very afraid of making the wrong decision, so he's probably overthinking things like lineup construction, righty-lefty matchups, resting guys at the worst possible times, and so on. I'm hoping he improves because he's all we've got. If the Dodgers actually make the playoffs, I fear that good ol' Doc will screw the pooch somehow and cost us a game.
  • Puig Puig Puig. It always comes down to Puig. From brilliant to awful in the space of five minutes, it's an old story already. At this point I'd trade him for the right offensive piece, like a strong-hitting left-fielder for example. Otherwise, it's hope and pray he figures things out.
  • Do we cut loose guys who have crashed to earth, like SVS and Trayce (although Trayce is still hitting home runs)? Who replaces them? Can we get better bench pieces in trade?
Unfortunately, this is kind of a wish-list. We're likely not getting any answers to the above. You'll note that I'm not too concerned with the starting pitching, except for my belief that a good long man out of the pen would do wonders for the short outings for our starters and save us from having to deal for another starter. The bench kind of sucks. Which all means that the front office will end up trading for another starter. Sigh.
The Dodgers damn near have the best bullpen in all of baseball -- a close 2nd, behind only KC by 0.04 ERA -- even with Hatcher's horrible line factored into the equation.  Jansen is Jansen, Liberatore has been awesome (pretty much as good as Chapman), Blanton has been a great surprise (something the front office hasn't been given enough credit for), Fien, Coleman, Baez and Howell have all been solid as well -- just don't bring Baez in when the tying run is at the plate :)   I'm not sure why anyone would clamor for more middle relief.

A catcher who can hit would be a great add though.  No argument there.  I'd love to see Lucroy, at the right cost, and I'd be happy to take Braun and his contract in the process. Adding two bats like Lucroy and Braun in the second half would be a HUGE boost.  Being in the bottom half of the majors in runs scored, that's where our biggest need is.




Sure the bullpen has been pretty good, but I still think we need a long man to come in when the starter gets pulled in the 5th or 6th inning. I don't trust Howell and Baez.

We also have to consider that if some of our injured pitchers do come back both Norris and McCarthy have experience in the bullpen and might be able to fill that long man role. I'm a little skeptical about healthy returns for everyone, but Kershaw Anderson and Wood are all supposedly throwing and I don't think we'd go with an 8 or 9 man rotation.

#19 [url]

Jul 7 16 3:32 PM

Given the current strength of our bullpen I wouldn't trade any good prospects for a 36 year old middle reliever (scratch that -- I'm in the midst of a migraine and mis-read the stat sheet) in the walk-year of a contract.   A quality starter would certainly have more value.  I'd be more open to it than if we were talking about a RP

#20 [url]

Jul 7 16 4:08 PM

DSinSoCal wrote:
Given the current strength of our bullpen I wouldn't trade any good prospects for a 36 year old middle reliever (scratch that -- I'm in the midst of a migraine and mis-read the stat sheet) in the walk-year of a contract.   A quality starter would certainly have more value.  I'd be more open to it than if we were talking about a RP

But he has been a mediocre middle reliever for the majority of his career, with some years as a mediocre starter mixed in. I have a hard time trusting a career year from a 36 year old pitcher. On top of that he's never been healthy and just came off the DL this year. I could see it if they believe that Kershaw will be out for quite a while, but otherwise I'd rather take my chances on Wood and/or Anderson being able to fill the spot we would be asking from Hill rather than giving up top prospects for him.

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