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#101 [url]

Oct 22 16 7:41 PM

I really don't give a shit who wins the World Series, but I'll be interested to see how the Indians do against the Cubs' pitching. It will help indicate to me whether we got beaten by an incredibly great rotation, or if our hitters just plain suck.

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#102 [url]

Oct 22 16 8:30 PM

beefchopper wrote:
hagdag26 wrote:
I know this sounds sadistic, but I was hoping for some shattered helmets for Baez, Contreras, Russell, and Rizzo just like Gossage did to Cey. Arrogant was an understatement for those 4 during the series.
Part of the problem is I doubt there is anyone on the Dodgers furious enough or frustrated enough to make that happen.

They never extracted payback for the intentional injuring of Hanley by the Cardinals.  Why would they do something like that for just guys being A-Holes?

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#103 [url]

Oct 22 16 9:06 PM

ocmike24 wrote:
beefchopper wrote:
hagdag26 wrote:
I know this sounds sadistic, but I was hoping for some shattered helmets for Baez, Contreras, Russell, and Rizzo just like Gossage did to Cey. Arrogant was an understatement for those 4 during the series.
Part of the problem is I doubt there is anyone on the Dodgers furious enough or frustrated enough to make that happen.

They never extracted payback for the intentional injuring of Hanley by the Cardinals.  Why would they do something like that for just guys being A-Holes?



I wouldn't. Just me hoping it would happen. No class among those 4.

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#104 [url]

Oct 23 16 4:04 AM

beefchopper wrote:
Interesting that they spent so much time showing and talking about Ned. I wonder if Ned is saying to himself the last year I was GM the team won two games in the NLCS and they have yet to do better than my team did.
Yep, there it is. The truth. Front office built a team that was lucky to get as far as they did. Ned for all his flaws did no worse.

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#105 [url]

Oct 23 16 4:50 AM

There have always (inevitably) been comparisons between Kershaw and Koufax. After last night the elephant in the room is the difference between their post season appearances. But I think the real difference was on nights when Koufax had no curve and threw 100% fastballs he was still unhittable. Kershaw is anything but in those circumstances.

With apologies to Lloyd Bensen in the VP debate with Quayle: I knew Sandy Koufax and Kershaw, you're no Sandy Koufax.

Last Edited By: beefchopper Oct 23 16 5:06 AM. Edited 4 times.

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#106 [url]

Oct 23 16 7:03 AM

Look, I don't want to sound like a CK apologist but the team scored 1 run in 2 nlcs games for him. To constantly feel like you have to be perfect every time you pitch is an amazing amount of pressure for any guy to take. The teams that beat him in the playoffs are there for a reason. They have talent and can hit and generally have very deep lineups. The expectations that he will dominate every team are not realistic. The Cubs also beat the " playoff unbeatable" Madbum. CK has never claimed to be the best ever or any other title. It is we the fans and the media that give him all of the labels. As disappointed as I am in yesterday's performance, I still consider him to be a generational player and am glad to have him. He will continue to be my favorite Dodger.

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#107 [url]

Oct 23 16 7:33 AM

Requiem for the 2016 Dodgers

To win a world championship you have to have a solid team, which the Dodgers did, AND have some players (both stars and journeymen) step up and perform at the top or above their talent level. In the past the Dodgers had Johnny Podres, Larry Sherry, Sandy Koufax, Rick Monday, Fernando Valenzuela, Jay Johnstone, Steve Yeager, Mickey Hatcher, and Orel Hershiser step up on the big stage under the most intense pressure and deliver. Unfortunately, as in the last 28 years, the 2016Dodgers did not have that. Rather, they tended to under achieve when the spotlight was brightest.

The Cubs had the more talented team. Their starting pitching was much deeper than the Dodgers'. Head to head at each position, the Dodgers had an edge only at catcher and shortstop, but nowhere else. So, the team definitely needed some above average efforts. However, even those positions where we seemed to have the more talented player, the results weren't there.

Go down the line. Utley, Grandal, Pederson, Kendrick, Gonzalez, Turner, nobody on the team other than Toles and Ethier came close to equaling their season's OPS. That's a bad combination there; out manned and under performing. Throw in some horrible performances by the Bullpen Killer B's, Blanton and Baez, and it's the end of another season that came too soon.

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#108 [url]

Oct 23 16 9:58 AM

Shmolnick wrote:
beefchopper wrote:
Interesting that they spent so much time showing and talking about Ned. I wonder if Ned is saying to himself the last year I was GM the team won two games in the NLCS and they have yet to do better than my team did.
Yep, there it is. The truth. Front office built a team that was lucky to get as far as they did. Ned for all his flaws did no worse.


Sure, Ned did.   I don't see any moves by this front office which have hamstrung us like the moves for Jason Schmidt, Juan Pierre, Bill Mueller, Andruw Jones and even Manny and Nomar.   Hell, one could even opine that the AGon trade has even hamstrung us if only because we are stuck with AGon for the length of his contract and he is really close to going over the cliff.     The only Friedman move that can be called marginally bad is Brandon McCarthy and no one expected him to be the ace that Schmidt was promised to be.     Anderson paid off in year one and while Hatcher, Barnes and Kike haven't paid off Gordon crashed back to Earth and had numbers that will be more in line with his remaining career.    

Granted, this front office can go into paralysis mode when someone gets hurt, but they didn't sell the farm like Ned did several times.     The only thing saving Ned was having Saito fall into his lap and getting Manny and Hanley as gifts.   I will agree this FO needs to stop resting on their laurels and do some heavy lifting because even though we within sight of the World Series, we have massive room for improvement in all aspects of the game, especially speed and anything righthanded.  

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#109 [url]

Oct 23 16 10:01 AM

WildHare wrote:
Requiem for the 2016 Dodgers

To win a world championship you have to have a solid team, which the Dodgers did, AND have some players (both stars and journeymen) step up and perform at the top or above their talent level. In the past the Dodgers had Johnny Podres, Larry Sherry, Sandy Koufax, Rick Monday, Fernando Valenzuela, Jay Johnstone, Steve Yeager, Mickey Hatcher, and Orel Hershiser step up on the big stage under the most intense pressure and deliver. Unfortunately, as in the last 28 years, the 2016Dodgers did not have that. Rather, they tended to under achieve when the spotlight was brightest.

The Cubs had the more talented team. Their starting pitching was much deeper than the Dodgers'. Head to head at each position, the Dodgers had an edge only at catcher and shortstop, but nowhere else. So, the team definitely needed some above average efforts. However, even those positions where we seemed to have the more talented player, the results weren't there.

Go down the line. Utley, Grandal, Pederson, Kendrick, Gonzalez, Turner, nobody on the team other than Toles and Ethier came close to equaling their season's OPS. That's a bad combination there; out manned and under performing. Throw in some horrible performances by the Bullpen Killer B's, Blanton and Baez, and it's the end of another season that came too soon.

Sadly, it took getting to Game Six of the NLCS before Roberts realized that Toles is our once and future leadoff hitter.    For all of Roberts' positives, he will stick to what worked two months ago for a very long time even when it isn't working.   

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#110 [url]

Oct 23 16 3:11 PM

grabarkewitz wrote:
Shmolnick wrote:
beefchopper wrote:
Interesting that they spent so much time showing and talking about Ned. I wonder if Ned is saying to himself the last year I was GM the team won two games in the NLCS and they have yet to do better than my team did.
Yep, there it is. The truth. Front office built a team that was lucky to get as far as they did. Ned for all his flaws did no worse.


Sure, Ned did.   I don't see any moves by this front office which have hamstrung us like the moves for Jason Schmidt, Juan Pierre, Bill Mueller, Andruw Jones and even Manny and Nomar.   Hell, one could even opine that the AGon trade has even hamstrung us if only because we are stuck with AGon for the length of his contract and he is really close to going over the cliff.     The only Friedman move that can be called marginally bad is Brandon McCarthy and no one expected him to be the ace that Schmidt was promised to be.     Anderson paid off in year one and while Hatcher, Barnes and Kike haven't paid off Gordon crashed back to Earth and had numbers that will be more in line with his remaining career.    

Granted, this front office can go into paralysis mode when someone gets hurt, but they didn't sell the farm like Ned did several times.     The only thing saving Ned was having Saito fall into his lap and getting Manny and Hanley as gifts.   I will agree this FO needs to stop resting on their laurels and do some heavy lifting because even though we within sight of the World Series, we have massive room for improvement in all aspects of the game, especially speed and anything righthanded.  
Ned's biggest problem was that he signed Schmidt 3/$45 and Andruw 2/$36 based on their career body of work and didn't recognize that they were in decline the year prior to acquisition.  McCarthy 4/$48 is just a nightmare deal, not marginally bad.  Mueller had a one year deal for less than $5M, and he had 590 PA's the year before completely breaking down with LA. No need to keep bringing up the Dee deal.  We've got basically nothing left from that deal, and Dee with all his warts, is as good or better than any second baseman (Kendrick) we currently have.

Bottom line is a lot of money has gone up in smoke the last ten years.

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#111 [url]

Oct 23 16 4:36 PM

WildHare wrote:
grabarkewitz wrote:
Shmolnick wrote:
Yep, there it is. The truth. Front office built a team that was lucky to get as far as they did. Ned for all his flaws did no worse.


Sure, Ned did.   I don't see any moves by this front office which have hamstrung us like the moves for Jason Schmidt, Juan Pierre, Bill Mueller, Andruw Jones and even Manny and Nomar.   Hell, one could even opine that the AGon trade has even hamstrung us if only because we are stuck with AGon for the length of his contract and he is really close to going over the cliff.     The only Friedman move that can be called marginally bad is Brandon McCarthy and no one expected him to be the ace that Schmidt was promised to be.     Anderson paid off in year one and while Hatcher, Barnes and Kike haven't paid off Gordon crashed back to Earth and had numbers that will be more in line with his remaining career.    

Granted, this front office can go into paralysis mode when someone gets hurt, but they didn't sell the farm like Ned did several times.     The only thing saving Ned was having Saito fall into his lap and getting Manny and Hanley as gifts.   I will agree this FO needs to stop resting on their laurels and do some heavy lifting because even though we within sight of the World Series, we have massive room for improvement in all aspects of the game, especially speed and anything righthanded.  
Ned's biggest problem was that he signed Schmidt 3/$45 and Andruw 2/$36 based on their career body of work and didn't recognize that they were in decline the year prior to acquisition.  McCarthy 4/$48 is just a nightmare deal, not marginally bad.  Mueller had a one year deal for less than $5M, and he had 590 PA's the year before completely breaking down with LA. No need to keep bringing up the Dee deal.  We've got basically nothing left from that deal, and Dee with all his warts, is as good or better than any second baseman (Kendrick) we currently have.

Bottom line is a lot of money has gone up in smoke the last ten years.

The only reason I bring up Dee is because if I don't someone else will.   He is this generations' Pedro Martinez.   I tend to think that Dee will crash and burn before he hits thirty - think Juan Pierre - and the Fish will pray to be out from under that contract before it even hits halfway.    Anyway, second base wasn't our biggest issue, it was and will be starting pitching.   Before Heaney's elbow went pop, I was more miffed over that move.   On the money thing, I actually think this front office has been restrained in it's spending.   Really, we have resisted spending stupid money.  Aside from paying Kershaw, we have really have not gotten stupid.    Sure, giving BMac $48 million was a bad expenditure, but the deals we have with Maeda, Kazmir, Kendrick and even Utley were pretty frugal.    Kendrick still has value and his remaining contract is not going to cause any team to blanche.    If Kazmir decides to spend the next three years on the beach, again, I have seen worse wastes of money.   

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#112 [url]

Oct 24 16 8:51 AM

beefchopper wrote:
Interesting that they spent so much time showing and talking about Ned. I wonder if Ned is saying to himself the last year I was GM the team won two games in the NLCS and they have yet to do better than my team did.
As I mentioned in the other thread you brought this up in, Ned's last season as GM was 2014, and Dodgers lost to the Cards in the NLDS in 4 games. It was in 2013 they lost to the Cards in the NLCS in 6 games.

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#113 [url]

Oct 26 16 9:00 AM

Throwdeuce wrote:
beefchopper wrote:
Interesting that they spent so much time showing and talking about Ned. I wonder if Ned is saying to himself the last year I was GM the team won two games in the NLCS and they have yet to do better than my team did.
As I mentioned in the other thread you brought this up in, Ned's last season as GM was 2014, and Dodgers lost to the Cards in the NLDS in 4 games. It was in 2013 they lost to the Cards in the NLCS in 6 games.

Thanks, I stand corrected.  I guess it only seemed like three years.

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